Questions by David2009-03-08
Lacie rugged errors with 2725
Lacie rugged errors as well

unsupported usb code = 0x00c0
or code = 0x0015

having no luck in any direction.... please help.
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Answer by R&D2009-03-09
Again, try to use power adapter and post the result again.
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Answer by david2009-03-09
Again, Had tried this prior to posting.
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Answer by NextoDI2009-03-11
0x0015 means INVALID FAT Format.
ND2725 supports only FAT file system. It does not support NTFS file format.
You can see the detail at the 28 page of manual.

Check if your external hard drive is formatted as FAT32.
Nexto does not support NTFS at this moment.
If not, put the hard drive of external case to ND2725 and format it at format menu of ND2725 and return it to the external case.

You can also format it as FAT32 at PC using special software like partitionmagic.

Windows does not format hard drive bigger than 32GB as a FAT32.
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Answer by david2009-03-13
ok - thats a bit odd - its sold as a High definition back up system - what happens with the files larger than 4gig on fat 32???

Fat 32 was left behind a decade ago for the large file problems...

I do not have a computer in the field to be able to beta test this for you. I can check it out next week.... but to be honest it sounds like a very bad option.
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Answer by Ben kho2009-03-13
Hi david,

Most cameras or PSDs used FAT32 file system. What will happen if you format your memory card in NTFS and try to use it in your digital camera e.g. Canon s1D Mark 3? it will give you memory card error message. Can I say that s1D mark3 a bad camera since it ONLY supports FAT32?

Same thing as your video camera, try to format your card in NTFS, I would be interested to know what would happen?

Just a thought
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Answer by david2009-03-14
Hi Ben,

Thanks for the input. The 2725 device is for high definition broadcast video applications, not just the stills variation.

Not wanting to state the obvious, but you are talking about comparitively very small files and work flows for simple stills work. Even a stills PSD at a very sizeable resolution would be unlikely to be larger than 4gig....

High Definition Broadcast footage is massive by comparison. Even though Sony manage shots so that they will not be more than 4 gig, and of course as you say the cameras internal file format is fat 32, our working edit files are pretty well always larger than 4gig, as could well be any export at this level for client preview...

That being said, the problem is more about the USB interface, not the specific hard drive formatting. The standard Sony SXS card reader reads fat 32 as does the EX1, and you can copy it via a computer all day long to a NTFS drive and back again... It does not spit USB connect errors all day with no real meaning or help file.

It does not get into semantics of whether a devise is good or bad because of the internal file format - it just translates to the alternative.

Its got everything to do with the interface between the devices and not a lot to do with the internal format of the camera card writer/reader. (assuming no over 4 g files)

Regardless - if one is made aware of limitations he can work around it.

The advertising material, manual and press marketing all state or strongly imply that you can sync to a STANDARD usb external drive, not a dismantled and modified specifically set up drive that can't be used for large file storage as well... if you see my point.

Above 32 gig in FAT32 - is not really a standard drive...
Whatsmore when it errors - there is not even any trouble shooting guide....

As far as the EX1 - yes you are correct - the cards are Fat32 - but they are 8 and 16 gig, and largest is 32gig. In the field, depending on the project we need to back up camera wilds AND edit sessions. Edits are definately over 4gig - so that presents a problem if we are dealing with the Nexto at Fat 32 and also need to downgrade our secondary backup system to Fat32 as well.. we need multiple backups solutions for shoot and edit now....

With such a limitation, we would need to start thinking of 2 dual drive systems to back up, (one fat32 set mathching Nexto, and one NTFS set so we can actually back up the projects....

We may as well remove Nexto from this equation and just do the backups on straight NTFS devices directly from the camera or SXS reader and be done with it - there is less excess bagagge involved the lighter we travel.
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Answer by Ben Kho2009-03-14
<quote>
Its got everything to do with the interface between the devices and not a lot to do with the internal format of the camera card writer/reader. (assuming no over 4 g files)
</quote>

not always. try to put your FORMATTED external NTFS storage device to your WIn98 OS (NATIVE FAT32 OS). The WIn98 will detect your external drive and sign with the drive letter. But as soon as you click that drive letter, there will be a pop up message saying whether you want to format the HDD or not. Well, the HDD been formatted in NTFS so why the Win98 asking about reformatting it? The same as all the PSD which is used NATIVE FAT32 filesystem.

there is always a limitation or plus and minus. but the thing how we handle this limitation.

Just a suggestion, probably you can backup the files from the camera to ND2725. but when you get home, transfer those files to your PC or external drive and edit them in there
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Answer by David2009-03-15
yeah well the professional video industry has never really been able to use a crippling operating system like win 98 to do any real magic. Given that we used windows NT with NTFS back then and prior to 1998 - and now in 2009 we obviously haven't used win 98 for a very long time - I don't see the logic of your argument
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Answer by Ben Kho2009-03-15
The Win98 is one of the examples to explain why not always the interface was the problem.
How about if I use this words, how people use Mac OS to read an external HDD which was formatted in ext3 (LINUX file system). Can the Mac OS recognize that external HDD which plug in to USB port?

The other thing is FAT32 is KIND OF an universal file system which would be recognize by other OS. What would happen if all PSDs in the market use ext3 file system? so how people use MAC transfering all the data from the PSD to their Mac?

Hope this will explain more clearly to you
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Answer by Ben Kho2009-03-15
This is the logic of my argument

you wrote...

<quote>
Its got everything to do with the interface between the devices and not a lot to do with the internal format of the camera card writer/reader. (assuming no over 4 g files)
</quote>
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Answer by davidw2009-03-16
My quote remains uneffcted by your ongoing critic.

None of this changes the truth of it - neither CURRENT windows platforms nor CURRENT Mac platforms benefit from 4 gig limitations. If we are crippling windows just to keep mac happy or crippling mac just to keep windowshappy its a pretty big compromise.

We are just talking about copying a file from one hardrive to another. As I have stated repeatedly - we will test this for viability when we return, but we do not like such a significant compromise just for compatibility to another os system which we are not using.

This thread is getting taken way off track. It still has lots to do with an intermediate interpreter - which in this case is the USB interfaces intelliegence.
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Answer by Ben Kho2009-03-17
Did I say anything about 4GB limitation is giving benefit. Cna you point me in which sentence I said about that. I only POINT that not always USB interface

Why don't you read about file system? perhaps, you might understand how it works.

As I stated, there is always plus & minus. Why your camera is too heavy & big which is the minus for that camera. I'm a small person which won;t carry that big camera for so long. isn't that a compromise as well?

you would buy studio camera which performs much better than your camera. you also compromise this

Like I said read about the file system then you might understand very well. how units which have different thing can work together.

I have IT degree for more than 10 yrs. SO I know very well about this USB stuff e.g. OHCL & OCHI
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Answer by Ben Kho2009-03-17
You wrote
we do not like such a significant compromise just for compatibility to another os system which we are not using.

I wrote
What would happen if all PSDs in the market use ext3 file system?

Addition:
What would happen if all external HDD in the market use HFS file system? Then you might also get problem using this external HDD because the OS you used won't supported.

SO you will NEVER use or buy this LACIE or any external HDD for your backup RIGHT???
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Answer by david2009-03-17
You keep swaying from the issues raised and representing academic banter and techno jargen acronyms of newly presented grey areas

Its much more black and white for end users.

Either it interfaces with something and syncs/backs up their files for their given application or it does not.

Something that just spits differing errors 70 plus times without any formal documentation on error codes is not much fun for end user whether they are educated in IT or not.

Importantly, we feel that no level of education is of significant value in the real world if it cant be applied to understanding the simple logic of that relevant application.

Our application as stated repeatedly is to back up raw camera data from an extremely high end 1080p compact camera, and additionally, back up edit material from the field.

I repeat - this requires greater than 4 gig file formats as does most real world broadcast HD material projects that have advanced beyond raw footage. This applies whether you are using Mac or PC.

It is possible as has been proven simply with any broadcast edit system workstation or laptop in the last 12-15 years, that a simple transfer of files from Fat32 to NTFS drives and back is a no brainer. This I understand is done by the host interface.

In the case of Nexto backing up directly to a drive in sync mode - it would be ideal to have an inteface that uses mass storage as just that. I am now made aware of the limitations of NExto HD products using FAT 32 beacuse its the only easy way between two alternate platforms, and will have staff myself run more tests to see if there is a viable workflow for OUR APPLICATION.

I understand that your application for this technology is possibly not as intense a level with the ability to edit 'at home' sometime after shooting. Our application is different. When shooting wildlife - its not really possible to just pop home to start editing.

The important note about your entire last response is

* its way off track of this thread
* we would never use an item that does not fit our application - these hypothetical cases you present are of no relevance.

the topic of this thread was started as and I will once again end it as 'what the heck are all these error codes?'

I have no further time for this communication - sorry
, it has become repetitive and not at all fruitful.

Hyptheticals are not relevant to our real world applications.
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Answer by Ben Kho2009-03-17
even microsoft not even giving the error code to end users?
if they do, then you will have thousand of pages to read the manual.

the reason Nexto or other companies use FAT32 are non-microsoft users will be happy to transfer their backup to their computers regardless the limitation.

It's your choice not mine if you want to use the item or not. I only saying NOT ALWAYS the USB interface was the problem. This is my whole explanations.

Ask the manufacturer about the error code if you want to know more. once Again, I only explained the USB interface not always the problem.
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Answer by david2009-03-17
You may not be aware but Microsoft error codes are available online from many sources including microsoft - just do a search on an error code.

As you point out, Fat32 may be a necesaary evil for MAC compatibilty, but its not a real solution for backing up HD post with large files - and it has never been used for broadcast video applications in post production in Windows environments (which have never used win98 and have always been NTFS) Neither is it relevant for current MACs that are actually running Linux these days.

I believe that this thread and the other threads relating to the errors are asking about the relevant error codes - read the beginning of the thread - the manufacturer responded with limited additional info, but enough to grasp a next test position. Its a slow tedious process, as opposed to a quick and easy solution.

It has got a fair bit to do with the USb interface - but by this perhaps you are talking at a low level hardware level and i am talking from an end user interface position(which may have additional software intelligence)

I understand you were trying to help initially and i thank you for that.
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Answer by david2009-03-17
One online version of tehse error codes here are;

0x00C0 N/A The operating system cannot run %1.
0x0015 N/A The device is not ready.

I have no idea if these are relevant here
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Answer by Ben Kho2009-03-17
same here. the manufacturer responded with the error code ONLINE

NextoDI WROTE
0x0015 means INVALID FAT Format.

with microsoft you search online
with nexto you ask online

Once Again, Did I EVER complaint about the 4GB or large file limitation?

And Once again, I only pointing about the USB interface NOT always the problem. Which sentence I mentioned about the 4GB limitation is benefit?
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Answer by david2009-03-18
Nexto has not responded to many other error codes I have asked for help with.

No you did not complain about 4 gig file limitation - you seemed oblivious to it, Instead you keep defending Fat32 as a good choice for some reason, which by implication is accepting the 4 gig limitation as viable for HD video applications.

without help the error code could tranlate to any number of problems - certainly formattinng of a third party external hard drive would not be the logical place to look after getting such a code.... one normally looks at the source. Formatting any drive to Fat 32 when the specification of the unit is for backing up massive files is a bit odd.
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Answer by Ben Kho2009-03-18
What I tried to say is FAT32 is like an interpreter or bridge to connect between OS. SO it's a good choice for some reason. Imagine if your sony card using MAC HFS, will you complain to Sony since you can't transfer the video files to your PC. SO all companies MUST use the universal FS to connect these platforms.

Like I said, there is always plus & minus. so all companies have to do this even they knew there are few limitations in FAT32 because they are so many NON-Microsoft users in the world
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Answer by David2009-03-18
I normally don't buy things that don't work splendidly for our applications.

I repeat a 4 gig limitation is no fun for either platform.

I think you had better look at percentages - last time I looked windows still had the lion share of the world market for domestic and commercial applications, and the 'non' windows users were a very very small percentage. Why should the majority suffer just because the minority users wont comply? oops thats fighting words isn't it ;) to use a hypothetical myself - its like saying I have a product that I am compromising for the US market just so as people in FIJI can use it at the same compromised level. It does not make sense. tell Fiji to raise the game. It would not make sense to tell US to change to meet Fiji.

Honestly, I just don't care about platforms. I just don't have an opinion on all that, but I wish people would stop imposing them on me. I have an end product to deliver - it does not deal in hybrid 4g land, just a result.
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Answer by Ben Kho2009-03-18
AGAIN and AGAIN...in which sentence I said 4GB limitation is a FUN. SHOW ME.

Why don't you complain to the creator of your application for the limitation too since it didn't work.

like other said, you buy nexto for download files from memory card MAINLY.
You buy a cell phone to MAKE a phone call not taking a professional picture even the cell phone can take pictures.

Will you complain to the cell phone maker e.g. Nokia, Samsung, HTC that telling them that the picture quality which taken using their cell phone NOT AS GOOD AS my Canon s1D mark3?

Will you complain to Toyota telling them that their Car stereo sound quality not as good as my $20K HT?

I'm not going to debate with you anymore. I just tried to help at the beginning but you blame on me for this BS
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Answer by David2009-03-18
Ben - you just keep coming back with hypothetical syantics. Which are NOT RELEVANT.

I am not sure who you even are or why you spend SO much time on the Nexto forum. If you are just a fun guy hanging around to 'help' by blurring the threads main topics...get a life please.

I have some issues i am trying to resolve with Nexto support and you are just plain in the way. Read the initial thread and ask yoursefl again - DID you help at all??

I was never here to debate with you and never invoted this - It was my thread you have intruded on. I just try to maintain the focus of the thread until Nexto respond to the initial problem.
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Answer by Ben Kho2009-03-18
good luck then...i think you are the one who need get a life since you are the one who got problem not mine. I'm just happy with mine. work flawlessly
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Answer by Ben Kho2009-03-18
why don;t you READ it yourself

here what yo wrote
2009-03-17
I understand you were trying to help initially and i thank you for that.

2009-03-18
Read the initial thread and ask yoursefl again - DID you help at all??
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Answer by David2009-03-18
yes - Trying to help and actually helping are 2 separate concepts

I see you never posted a third quote with the answer to the question of the thread...


I do need to get a life - wasting time on problems with not a lot of support and just people muddying waters is pointless.

if yours works so splendidly - with the heck are you even on the forum....? Its a porcoess for support team
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Answer by Ben Kho2009-03-18
because i don't need to answer anymore since I don't get any problem.
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Answer by david2009-03-18
Excellent. Thanks for your time and have a great night
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Answer by David2009-03-19
More seeming fanatical ravings from random users and not Support services... Is there a real support area at all where you just deal with the company you are doing business with?? I have no commercial arrangment with anyone outside of Nexto and its reseller.

Either it interfaces with something and syncs/backs up to SOME?ANY?? external drive or it does not. So far it does not. Please support this forum in a positive way if you have alternate findings - that would be helpful.
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